Spoilers and loooong text after the cut.
Yesterday during the Q&A I asked if Jackson’s “We are all here” and Isaac’s “They are here” were related. Of course, Jeff didn’t answer, which is interesting I guess.
I think we are all onto something. There is definitely something going on, and if we take in consideration the summary for the next few episodes, the possibility of mind games, hallucinations, altered memories or similar is probably the explanation. Which… Suaine and I have advocated for the mind fuckery plot since they showed us the first page of the 301 script, at the beginning of the hiatus.
I’m so excited for this, you have no idea. And this meta is awesome!
As you may know, because of the above picture of Scott, I theorized a little bit about the possibility of Teen Wolf doing an Inception/Matrix-style narrative with two or more layers of reality.
In 302, there is the now infamous Isaac bath scene that does a few interesting things. We’ve all noticed the flickering lights and the super dramatic thunder storm that is apparently affected by Isaac’s emotions, going so far as to messing with the electricity in the building - but not just taking out the grid, it’s like some kind of heavy interference, punctuating Isaac’s descent into memories.
Then there’s the general weirdness of how the information comes out - and what we don’t see. Done for dramatics it may be, but not letting us hear from Isaac that he saw Erica’s dead body is weird. The revelation from Stiles is almost anti-climactic and it’s not like there was a break to justify a scene cliffhanger.
By now, everyone knows I’m on team “nothing is real”, basically, but here’s a new thing:
That flickering gif up there is a two-frame sequence between Isaac’s dream-state and him waking up properly- it’s the last thing he sees before he’s jolted into “wakefulness” (although there is some more memory stuff we get to see with him and Kali, it very much looks like Isaac has woken up and the important information of the bank vault has come out). It’s not a shot repeated anywhere else in the episode. It looks a lot like wet Isaac, yes, but it’s shot from a different angle and the lighting is different. I took the liberty of adjusting the brightness levels a little and I think it refers to what he says when he slips into that state that seems to be something other than memories.
He says: “They’re here. They’re here- They’re here.” And notice that Stiles looks taken aback as Isaac says this, we’re supposed to notice that something is weird here (Stiles is also the one who looks at the lights like they’re weird). Isaac doesn’t let Deaton calm him down. “No,” he says, “They’re here. They’ve seen me. They’ve found me.” Which, you know, could still be the alphas, but. Then he says, “They’re here. I can’t see them. It’s too dark. I can’t see!”
Consider this: Isaac was sneaking around, watching the alphas, knowing that they were there. It’s a little iffy that he’d yell about them being there like that’s news, because in his mind that was very much already established. Even more so, it’s not dark in the bank at all. The memories are bright and lit and there is no problem with anyone seeing anyone else except maybe Deucalion.
But Isaac insists, panics, that he can’t see.
And then, there comes this gif. Two frames of a distressed, possibly wolfed out person, probably Isaac, in the dark.
And if that wasn’t creepy enough, those eyes could very well be black. Remember that teaser with the black eyes?
At this point, I still don’t know what’s going on, but the idea of two realities or at least another layer of hallucinations and a web of fake memories, seems more and more likely. I know people have been really taken with the idea of the hands in the opening credits belonging to Derek and his family, but what if they represent the space between the two realities and someone trying to pull someone else out of it?
I’m mostly intrigued about these hidden frames we seem to be getting every week. And I can’t wait to see what we find out in next episodes. They must be a warning to the viewers, since it doesn’t affect the characters or the plot. It seems more like a way to cement the idea that something is off to the people watching the show. But why these hidden frames and why warn us?
Popular theory is that the Alpha Pack Plot and the Murders’ Mystery Plot are two different stories that somehow will end up interlinked. They will start as two mysteries, thus why the characters apparently will go their different ways during the season. But in the end, they will find each other because both stories will take them to the same place, which I’m starting to believe might be a third mystery.
We know that the Alpha Pack aren’t as bad as we think, or at least not all of them. And whatever is happening, unrelated to them, is killing people, so it can’t be that good, either. I was thinking that maybe we are dealing with more than two stories. If the theory that the people Isaac is referring to when he says “they are here” are the deceased Hale family members turns out to be true, I can’t see them being the ones responsables for all the mysterious deaths. This seems like some sort of poltergeist subplot, one that could easily be linked back to previous seasons if they were so inclined.
And since we know we are getting flashbacks this season to meet the Hale members before the fire, and during that episode we will find out the mystery about the eye colors, I can’t help but think everything is related. The opening with the 8 hands, the resurrection theory, the poltergeist activities, the hidden frames, I don’t know, we are missing something but there is definitely something there.
Sorry, at this point I’m just rambling. Fucking werewolves, man.
So I haven’t seen anyone on my dash talking about this yet, but I was rewatching “Chaos Rising” last night, and I was struck by Isaac during the ice-bath scene saying, “They’re here, they’re here!”
Obviously, it could be him remembering when he was in the bank, remembering when the Alphas found him. But when combined with the other weird things that were happening (the power flickering, the fact that we the audience never heard him say anything about Erica being dead and he doesn’t remember saying anything of the kind) I’m left wondering if he didn’t mean something more literal. I have to wonder if at least some of the Alphas weren’t there, in the room when we didn’t see it, altering everyone’s memories to further their own agenda.
It seems overcomplicated, true. But then, so does everything the Alphas are doing so far. They lured Derek (and Scott, though that may have been unintentional) to the bank vault in an elaborate IT’S A TRAP series of convoluted clues and enticements that they could only expect to work if they knew enough about the way the pack and its allies behaved. They seemed to expect them to be held there by a line of mountain ash, but given that they’ve held Boyd and Erica for months and had Isaac under their power for who knows how long, surely they would’ve known that there were multiple humans involved in that pack. And given that Erica, Boyd, and Isaac were all present and involved in the events in ‘Raving’—and that Ms. Morrell is somehow connected to both Deaton and the Alpha pack—it’s not exactly a stretch to say they probably know about Stiles being a spark. None of the Alphas stuck around to make sure that things were finished, that Scott (who we must at this point, from Deucalion’s statements, assume is the one they really want dead) was taken out of the picture. All of which would mean that they intentionally led them into a trap that they fully expected to fail.
The Alphas aren’t playing things directly; they’re playing some sort of long game that hasn’t quite revealed itself yet. Which makes me question how deep they’re willing to go, how much of anything that we’re seeing is trustworthy at all.
I definitely picked up on Isaac yelling “they’re here!” and wondered if he meant he saw the Alphas in his memory if if that was a literal statement. As you say, when we weren’t actually shown Isaac saying he saw Erica’s body just Stiles telling him he said that, well… My spidey senses tingled. That was a definite choice that the writers made NOT to show Isaac saying that, and the question is WHY? It’s possible that was a melodramatic way to do it, but it could have been equally dramatic to have Isaac yelling it - and then we would have seen everyone’s reaction to that statement. As it was, by the time we the viewers learned Isaac had seen Erica’s body, Derek (especially) and the others had had a chance to process it. That’s such a wasted opportunity to show Derek in pain that I can’t believe Davis would willingly give it up! Which suggests there’s more to it…
Now, here’s the thing, it makes much more sense for the Alphas to alter Isaac’s memory so he actually does remember it as him seeing Erica’s body rather than for the Alphas to sneak in and alter the memory of 4 other people. Possibly Awesome Nameless Girl broke him out before they could do so, and this was their plan B. Possibly they couldn’t be sure that Isaac’s manipulated memories would stand up under werewolf tricks (like the ice bath), while if they could actually alter Derek, Scott, Stiles and Deaton’s memories without them even suspecting the Alphas were around, then they wouldn’t have reason to suspect their memories. But why would Erica being alive but thought to be dead be such a big deal?? That’s the part I get confused about.
But… here’s another thought - Isaac said “they’re here!” and viewers assumed he was talking about the Alphas because he had just been talking about them. But you know who else said “they’re here”? Jackson when he was drugged up after the Rave. At the time it seemed like a dropped plotline, but what if it’s not? What if “they” are something that has been around for a while? What if “they” are the ones who kidnapped Heather? What if “they” have an agenda that we have no clue about yet, but both times somehow involves people Derek’s bitten? What if “they” got a pretty good look at Stiles when he was talking to “them” in Jackson’s body and now they took the girl he was about to hook up with?
What if “they” can cause electrical shorts in lights, hallucinations in wine cellars, and implant memories in a group of people?
That seems kind of like poltergeist activity to me. And when was the last time Beacon Hills had a large group of people die together to form a “they”? Maybe…. 6 years ago?
Holy shit you guys just killed me.
Especially that last bit… that gave me CHILLS.
And I’ve wondering how weird this is placed on the credits… Right before Stiles, the person who he know is going to be trying to solve this unwerewolf murderers.
Then we have the banshee theory for Lydia, that would totally fit with this plot, because “a banshee is a fairy woman who begins to wail if someone is about to die” and “during the Middle Ages it was said that the banshee would also protect the souls of those of good heart and deed after they had passed on.”
It fits and now I’m scared it’s true lol.
I’VE GOT CHILLS
THEY ARE MULTIPLYING
It is my opinion that Deucalion has already tampered with Scott’s memories. I am basing this off the fact that Scott’s eyes have changed. His eyes now have the black on the outside of the irises - just like Isaac (whose memories we know have been altered) and the other alphas of the alpha pack. The reason I don’t think this is just a stylistic change for all werewolves is because the opening credits have the same eyes as the previous seasons and Derek’s eyes are still the same as last season. This theory also explains the blood on Deucalion’s hands after the locker room fight - they were bloody from altering Scott’s memories - assumed to have happened when Scott was leading him off the elevator.
That’s my theory anyway and I haven’t seen it described elsewhere. Guess we’ll find out soon enough :)
The eyes thing - holy shit. Mind is officially blown.
Deucalion’s bloody hands, though. Wasn’t that because he had just gutted the girl? Right before kneeling in front of her and gutting her again, I mean. lol
But yeah, Scott’s meeting Deucalion at the Hospital… We have no idea what happened there… God, I’m so excited. I love the possibility of mind fuckery plot actually happening!
So, after watching this promo, I guess there are werewolves with red, blue, yellow or black eyes.
Seeing how several promos show black goo, I’m going to relate both the black good with the black eyes because of obvious reasons.
Now, we know that Lydia is immune. But what if she’s more than just immune? Remember the “I’m the poison” quote? Let’s pretend she said that. What if she has an unknown effect on werewolves? And if she’s toxic, would an infected werewolf get black eyes? Does that mean they turn into a different kind of shifter or just sick?
Dear Sterek fans,
STFU about making Sterek canon. It is STATUTORY RAPE.
A Sterek fan
you know it’s funny, this is actually something Jeff and I talked about.
Because yes, it is a problem, and one that shouldn’t be swept under a rug, but you know what I said?
This would be a major source of drama and conflict; not just from Stiles and his dad, but from Derek. Derek, who dated an older woman and she killed his family? Who has suffered every day for it?? Who is now dating a young boy just like he was???
I would love to see a relationship develop, simply because of this; this guilt, this constant on edge.
(also: relationship =/= sex.)
(ALSO ALSO: why do you tag hate, that isn’t very cool.)
*whines* but every couple except Sheriff/ Mama McCall could be classified like that. Lydia can’t even have sex. Why is sex always part of the equation, like people who wait don’t EXIST like it’s so freaking uncommon. How many times guys, how many times.
Holy fucking SHITBALLS, THAT.
If you think that the only way that Sterek can be considered canon is if they’re fucking, YOU need to STFU, because you’re wrong.
If you want to claim a couple has to be sexually active before they are allowed to be considered canon on a show than you’re going to exclude, what for many couples, is often a huge and highly significant part of the emotional foundation of their relationship. This is especially true if one member of said couple has been sexually abused or emotionally abused by a previous partner prior to the start of their relationship. Stiles and Derek as lovers is at best the middle, if not the endgame of the kind of romance between them I’d love to see.
No Stiles is not of legal age to give consent at present. In this case that can hardly be considered a bad thing, seeing as how if he and Derek have any hope of building a relationship between them that is not destructive or otherwise unhealthy, it will need to grow from friendship SLOWLY and involve a HELL of a lot of healing for both of them on multiple levels. To assume people can’t form emotional attachments that deepen over time and only expand to include sexual partnership years later is a tragic sort of stereotyping all its own. There are people out there in love who are not having sex yet. There are people out there in love who for whatever reason may never want/be able to be physically intimate at all.
Saying Sterek shouldn’t be made canon because it would be statutory rape is disingenuous, or perhaps stereotypical in the assumption that every couple out there jumps immediately from friends to lovers in a matter of weeks.
This is a much more eloquent and thoughtful comment than I was able to provide. Bless you.
I am in complete agreement with the fact that a relationship does not need to involve sex in order to be canon. And I agree that it would be problematic for Stiles/Derek to have a sexual relationship while Stiles is in his teens, not only because of the morality issue but because of Derek’s past trauma.
But to bring another argument to the table:
- Why is it that Stiles/Derek would make you cry statutory rape but Buffy/Angel wouldn’t?
Because let me tell you, everyone and their mothers shipped Buffy (who was 17) and Angel (200+ vamp, 26 year old body) and their having sex was actually a HUGE part of their arc and the show in general. They had the sex, they showed the sex being had, and everyone was pretty cool with it (at least until Angelus showed up).
So…why? I want to believe the answer would be “because we have more awareness now!” But I don’t think that would hold up. I think if you looked at other YA shows (I don’t watch any so feel free to chip in), you’d find relationships with age discrepancies greater than 2 years (which I believe is the golden gap in teenagers?).
Still using Buffy as the example, Cordelia Chase exclusively dated College boys at one point, when she was at most 17. Buffy herself was in her first year (17-18?), I think, when she started dating Riley, a TA, which would put him around 21-22? Maybe not illegal but only just.
So…again, why is Stiles/Derek the one standing out as the unholy statutory rape example?
EDIT: Oh snap, so I didn’t really understand the comment about how Lydia/Jackson couldn’t have sex because I was under the impression that California had laws similar to here where minors (above 14 I think?) can have sexual relationships with their peers so long as there isn’t an age-gap greater than 2 years. APPARENTLY NOT. It’s apparently completely illegal for ANY teenagers under the age of 18 to have any sex with anyone whatsoever.
So so far we’ve seen Jackson/Lydia have illegal sex, and Scott/Allison have a lot of illegal sex, and we’re going to be seeing Danny have some illegal sex soon.
^^ What they all said tbh ^^
This post is only a theory among many other theories. So, feel free to disagree with everything and discuss it. We have 42 days to do it! :)
I believe that this next season will be much more than the alpha pack. In my opinion, we’ll be facing a much bigger mystery this season that involves the Hale family. Though, in this theory they’re both still connected.
Why do I think there’s something else? Well, Dylan O’Brien has been talking about this a lot during interviews. He mentions the mythology, how we’re going to find out more about the blue eyes (very important) and also about Deaton and his family. Keep in mind that it’s not just about Deaton, it’s also about his family! More importantly? The last interview I saw with him, he talks about how we’re going to find out more about Derek. Then he also mentions that we’ll also find out a lot more of what Teen Wolf is all about. Interesting, right?
Basically this is a must read <3
Not gonna lie, I’m in so much love with this Chosen-One!Derek theory.
Stiles: It’s not just a feeling though, it’s- it’s like a panic attack. You know, like I can’t even breath.
Morell: Like you’re drowning.
Morell: So, if you’re drowning, and you’re trying to keep your mouth closed that very last moment, what if you choose to not open your mouth, to not let the water in?
Stiles: You do anyway, it’s a reflex.
Morell: But, if you hold off, until that reflex kicks in, you have more time right?
Stiles: Not much time.
Morell: But more time to fight your way to the surface.
Stiles: I guess.
Morell: More time to be rescued.
Stiles: More time to be in agonizing pain. I mean, did you forget about the part where you feel like your head’s exploding?
Morell: If it’s about survival, isn’t a little agony worth it?
Stiles: But what if it just gets worse? What if it’s agony now and then- then it’s just hell later on?
Morell: Then think about something Winston Churchill once said. ‘If you’re going through hell, keep going.’
So I was watching through Teen Wolf and came to the intro with Stiles in Morell’s office. And, having spent plenty of time in therapy myself, I started trying to look at this situation from her point of view.
We see the conversation start, seemingly unprompted, with Stiles rattling off the random information he’s learned about drowning. The workings of it, the effect on the body, the sensations a person is feeling. He ends this by taking on this almost longing tone to describe the death, about how “it doesn’t hurt anymore” and “it’s actually kind of peaceful.”
Now let’s think about that. Morell is a school counselor and she’s presented with a kid who of his own volition just revealed this positive and wistful view of death. That is red flag number one. Then Stiles goes on to discuss the falling apart of his relationships with the two most important people in his life, his dad and Scott. Red flag numbers 2 and 3. They discuss other people and Stiles shows self-deprecation when it comes to lacrosse, flippantly talked about his teammates’ death and disappearance. Red flag number 4.
And then Stiles doesn’t want to talk about himself, closes off when she asks about him. Red flag number 5.
When she gets him to open up, things just get even worse from Morell’s perspective. Stiles is talking about this hyper-vigilance, this persistent panicky sensation and talking about how it’s becoming too much.
That’s when I think Morell switches, when she’s no longer trying to get him to open up. She’s trying to get him to survive. I think Morell recognized Stiles as someone who has given up on life.
Look at the conversation above. We’ve read these words, watched them a million times, but look at them for exactly what they are, in this specific context. Their conversation above, about agony and wanting it to end, that wasn’t just inspirational and moving. That was Morell trying to convince Stiles to keep on living.
Because in that whole conversation, Stiles never once admits that survival is more important than pain. He fights it, pushes back. It’s like he’s given up when he says “It’s a reflex.” As if he’s saying death is inevitable, there’s no point in fighting it, in prolonging it. He thinks they’re losing, HARD (and they are) and he has accepted that his own death will probably be an outcome of this.
Morell keeps pushing it though, emphasizing survival and trudging through the pain, not giving him even an inch. She’s making it clear that she will not concede his point, that no matter the pain, the agony, the hell, staying alive and fighting is the only option.
And the look on Stiles’ face when she says that… it’s like she saw right through him and he just realized what she’d done. And he felt raw, vulnerable and to me that look says he heard her, that he understands. This was a classic example of a session in which the counselor gets someone to talk their way to revealing things they didn’t even know about themselves.
Jumping forward, to the next day after the game, when Stiles is projecting all over Lydia about death- that tangent came from almost nowhere, which makes it seem to me that death has been on Stiles’ mind a lot (specifically his mom’s death). But I don’t think he was just yelling at his mom; I think he was yelling at himself. He saw what his disappearance did to his dad and I think he was angry at himself for even for a moment giving up, for entertaining the possibility of letting death take him without a fight. And he was trying to convince himself to keep going not because survival was important to him, but because his survival was important to others.
Epic meta is epic.
Remember the scene when Stiles is telling Scott he wants to help but he just can’t. He’s feeling powerless and weak. I don’t think anyone managed to understand his character during season 2, what Stiles truly went through. And I think that Morell’s words helped, but once Gerard beated him up, and he saw Lydia giving up, that’s when Stiles finally reacted. It was a convinantion of several things. Basically, it was character development done flawlessly.
Let me add, since my mind always goes to Sterek, how projecting is something we know Derek does a lot. I just love this meta because, most importantly, it makes sense. And secondly, it’s another thing Derek and Stiles have in common, another point they could understand and help each other with.
seriously though, i’d give parts of my soul for Stiles and Derek to accidentally kiss and then be like ho shit, i don’t know where that came from I mean— we’re not—
AND THEN THEY SAY SCREW IT AND MAKE OUT FOR TEN HOURS OK YES.
“What…” In a stupor, Stiles reaches up and drags the back of his hand over his lips. They’re still wet.
“I don’t.” Derek takes a step back, and slowly disengages his fingers from Stiles’ hair. “I honestly. Um.”
“What,” Stiles says again, because it bears repeating.
“Well, I don’t—you jumped at me!”
“You looked at my mouth, though!”
“So what!” Derek clenches his fists. “I look at your mouth all the time!”
“Not that—I don’t mean—” Derek takes a long, heavy breath. “We’re both very tired right now.”
“Yes, completely fried.” Stiles’ eyes slip down to Derek’s chest, because it’s heaving shallowly. Stiles has never seen it do that before. He can’t look away from the rapid rise-and-fall of Derek’s collarbones.
“Everyone has strange impulses when they’re…”
“Exactly!” Stiles says, pointing at him. “Exactly. Like being drunk!”
“Or drugged,” Derek agrees, nodding. He looks wild-eyed and cornered, and is he sweating a bit at his temples?
“Like having a head injury?” Stiles suggests, reaching out to cup Derek’s jaw and brush his thumb against his sideburns, just to check.
“Or like being really fucking attracted to you,” Derek sighs, frustrated.
“Yeah, or like that,” Stiles agrees with an angry eye-roll, and Derek groans and pulls him back in by his hoodie strings.
And god, I love this. You have a real way with words that kills me. If I begged hard enough, would you continue this? *puppy eyes*
I just had the most amazing chat with Suaine about Sterek, and we thought of sharing to see what you guys think. Please feel free to add to the conversation, this could be really interesting!
Topic: Sterek and the Defense Mechanisms.
**The opinions expressed here are solely those of the two crazy ladies in chat, if you don’t feel our feels, that’s okay!**
yeah dylan has good intentions but in the long run cutesy queerbaiiting sterek scenes will just make people even more vicious and bitter tbh
But that’s your own interpreation of the spoiler. We still don’t know what his comment meant in terms of the new season. We don’t even know if Jeff liked the idea and is going to include it or not. And whenever Jeff decided to include it or not, we still don’t know if he’s going to make Sterek canon or not. So accusing them of queerbaiting now is definitely premature.
“There aren’t any Stereky scenes so far,” O’Brien tells us, “But I had an idea for Jeff, that when we do finally meet, and if we have a scene that’s very expositional — like if we come together and something’s going on we have to converge and discuss something — then we should kind of stop at the end of it and before we walk away, Stiles should just say, ‘I missed you.’ Just to acknowledge it for the fans in little, funny ways.“
I’m not sure this is the best first Sterek spoiler of Season 3 they’d have released, tbh. Not because of contents but because of wording and fandom’s possible reaction. But maybe (pretty sure) that was the idea, so lol
“Stiles and Derek don’t interact much in the first half of the season.”
But why don’t they? That’s an interesting question. And what about the second half? That’s an even better question. We’re not even sure what ‘Stereky scenes’ mean. (Also, Stereky? Really Dylan? You’re giving nicknames to the pairing nickname? Stop being adorbs pls.)
This only leaves things open for us to speculate until our fingers fall off or Season 3 starts, whatever comes first.
“Stiles should just say, ‘I missed you.’ Just to acknowledge it for the fans in little, funny ways.”
After the initial squee, because Dylan is
- clearly comfortable with the idea of Sterek
- being good natured in wanting to give the fans what they want and
- ‘I MISSED YOU’ OKAY DYLAN OKAY.
Isn’t this just like any other slash teasing we’re used to from other TV shows so far? I don’t want to use that word you’re thinking, because ugh hate it so much, but I suspect other people will. And it’s not fair, because
- Dylan suggested this, not Jeff.
- We don’t know what Jeff decided to do.
- They are trolling us so we shouldn’t take anything seriously??
I honestly think the wording of the spoiler is misleading on purpose. I’m guessing a lot of people will be sure Sterek aren’t happening in S3 after this, and a lot of other people will be sure Sterek are happening because of this.
So bravo, highest level of trolling achieved, Teen Wolf. This is pretty much how you tease your fans during a hiatus so they go crazy and never come close to guessing what’s really going to happen in the new season.
On the other hand, expect some pretty dramatic reactions and wild accusations.
TBH, I’m not sure whether Dylan suggested that idea as a sincere, full-of-meaning way (which I guess most of Sterek fans want) or comedic, Stiles’ signature “flailing-arms-and-be-sarcastic” (like all the pre-existing TV shows) way, because, admit it, most of people outside fandom (or Tumblr world) doesn’t really know what is what we call “queer-baiting” (there, I said it) is, and some of them still think there’s nothing wrong with it or better yet, they think they’re doing good thing to cater fans who wants to see some same-sex characters (bro)mance on the show.
They are not doing it to harm us or Queer communities nor doing it intentionally. We’re just really sensitive to this issue because we’ve face it too many times time, a show after show, to be ignorant about it, and THEY JUST DON’T REALIZE IT.
Like most of people in this fandom, I don’t personally know Dylan O’Brien or something, and I’m sure he’s lovely in person, but while I don’t assume that Sterek is doomed, I also doubt Dylan is fully aware just how many of us are very serious about this potential of romantic relationship b/w Derek and Stiles.
But then again Dylan or any cast&crews can’t be so blind after all what they’ve been through, you know? The fan reaction itself is very telling how much we are serious about Sterek.
I kind of disagree a bit with both posts.
1) I think Dylan and everyone there has a very good idea about how serious many fans are about wanting a canon relationship for Derek and Stiles. It’s part of their job to be on top of stuff like that. Plus, I’m sure it was discussed in the AfterElton interview the other day (which may in fact be where Zap2It is getting this from).
2) We don’t know if Davis has decided for sure about how the latter half of S3 will go in terms of sterek. He’s still writing it, they are filming things and getting feedback on the spoilers that have been put out. It’s all a process, and it’s ongoing right now.
3) I think it’s an interesting first spoiler to put out because:
3a) It explains why there haven’t been any sterek spoilers so far.
3b) It sets expectations lower for the first half of S3 in terms of sterek content, meaning when there are scenes together fans will be happy. I mean, I’m not exactly taking from this that they aren’t in any scenes together, I’m taking it to mean there aren’t any one on one scenes between them. Significant looks, etc can be exchanged even with other people in the room.
3c) It shows they are clearly aware that fandom wants more sterek scenes and they are talking about ways in which to acknowledge that. The fact that Dylan is taking an interest is significant because he has Davis’ ear and it’s more likely to happen therefore.
4) Even if Davis decides not to make sterek canon, that doesn’t make it queerbaiting to acknowledge that fans want sterek and give them that. It doesn’t mean it’s not either necessarily - but the term usually implies malicious intent to inflame fan hopes purely to keep ratings, as opposed to someone doing it as a way to make fans happy. It’s all in the intent - but it doesn’t help the feeling the it generates, which is hope followed by disappointment. And that’s really why people tout certain things as queerbaiting, because we are disappointed when things don’t pan out how we hoped and blame the showrunner no matter what his/her intent was. And that’s something fandom needs to think about, because intent really is quite important here.
^^THIS. I’m reblogging for that last point, because I think it’s very interesting and we should all take it in consideration.
OK, I’m going to start off with a disclaimer saying this is not mean to invalidate anyone’s feelings or suggest that people should react in a different emotional way. That’s rude to suggest and lacks empathy. I am writing this to hopefully present a different viewpoint from the negative ones I’ve seen on my dash.
Obviously that disclaimer suggests I’m delving into a controversial realm, which I am indeed doing. I want to talk about some reactions I’ve seen within the Sterek fandom regarding S3 spoilers for Teen Wolf, specifically Derek getting a possible romantic interest and how people are bemoaning it as a sign that Sterek won’t happen and maybe never was even considered, that we were just used to get votes and publicity.
1) Whether or not Derek or Stiles get a love interest at the beginning of S3 (which is all they’re discussing right now given Davis hasn’t even written all the eps yet), has very little bearing on whether or not Sterek could happen in the future, even the end of S3. Davis said that maybe Derek could have a little happiness this season - a very little (what can I say, the guy’s a troll). This makes it pretty clear that any love interest Derek gets won’t end well, and that she won’t be significant long term. Additionally, the spoilers have primarily been about Derek’s new loft and the assumption by TV sites that this translates to him getting his romance on. All Davis has said is that Derek probably found his minimal furniture in the garbage. Still, there’s probably some truth since many sites are reporting it. That still doesn’t translate to Derek gets a permanent love interest, which means sterek will never happen. It’s a logic leap with zero basis in reality. Is it theoretically possible - yes, is it very likely - no. So, my advice to people who are very upset about it is to wait and see how it plays out, because that’s often very different than spoilers would have you believe.
Actually, remember, before S2 there was very little discussion of Scott/Allison or Lydia/Jackson and those 2 relationships were pivotal to the emotional arcs of the season. The fact that spoilers haven’t discussed Scott/Allison or Sterek could be a sign that both relationships are central to S3. Just a thought.
2) So, let’s say that the worse case scenario is accurate and Sterek will never happen. Let’s say Davis comes right out and says it (worst publicity move possible, but hey it’s all theoretical). Does that mean he never considered it?
Without getting into Davis’ head, if Sterek never happens we can’t know for sure whether he meant that he would consider it or not, however we can extrapolate from the fact that long after the Teen Choice awards were over and long before the AfterElton/EW poll thing happened, he was still talking as if it were possible. After the AfterElton poll and at the NY Con, he was clearly aware of it and didn’t dismiss it (didn’t push it either). When the Teen Wolf facebook page reached 2,000,000 followers MTV released a Sterek blooper reel. Davis/MTV were very aware of the Cookies for Sterek campaign and Davis teased about it, saying he loved cookies, etc. One of his last tweets thanked the Sterek Campaign in fact. The MTV fan fic contest people CHOSE to not only award one winner, but also to unexpectedly publicize 5 runner up fics - all of which were sterek. Since filming started, there have been a few vids/pics of Dylan and Hoechlin interacting with each other in ways that made sterek fans happy. Yes, the last couple of weeks have been more Posey and Daniel related, but… Are we really expecting only Sterek-related constantly? We don’t get that for a couple of weeks and suddenly TW people are trying to push Sterek under the rug? For real??
Anyway, my point is that Davis/MTV and the Teen Wolf people didn’t have to continue to acknowledge or push Sterek once the Teen Choice award was won and they never backed away/tried to get people to stop shipping it. It’s been THE most supported slash ship I’ve ever seen, and I’ve been around a while. So to suggest that somehow Davis/MTV were queerbaiting to get votes/publicity and never really considered it as really possible seems to be choosing to view things through a very negative lens that intentionally ignores evidence to the contrary.
3) Last point, I promise - a few months ago I asked if Jeff Davis chose to not pursue Sterek as a storyline because he wanted to tell a different story, how would people react? Because even back then I was seeing signs that fans were suggesting we DESERVE Sterek because we did all these things that garnered Teen Wolf attention. At the time I called that the fandom edition of Nice Guy Syndrome - assuming we deserve something because we chose to support Teen Wolf/Sterek in votes, polls, publicity, etc. And all I can say to that is that we made that choice knowing Davis could decide not to pursue Sterek, and to get angry now and act as if we shouldn’t have done it because we haven’t immediately gotten what we want doesn’t seem fair or nice.
I’m not saying people can’t feel that way, I’m saying that we made our own choices knowing the facts and it’s only on ourselves that any regret should fall, not Davis or Teen Wolf.
Ultimately, I think it’s beyond premature to act as if Sterek will never happen. I completely understand the initial emotional response of “Do not want” from the spoilers about Derek maybe getting a love interest, but going from there to sterek is dead is a hugely improbable logic leap and going from that to blaming Davis/Teen Wolf for leading us on just to get votes is rewriting history to justify being angry at not getting an immediate sterek romance because we “deserve” it.
We can do better fandom. We don’t have to be this reactionary and lead with anger as our primary emotional response to any news that doesn’t immediately please us. Can we just chill, please???
THIS. ALL OF THIS.
I put this in the comments section at AfterElton, but I’m also putting it here because I think it’s something we as a fandom could have an interesting discussion about.
The AfterElton question asking if more Danny screen time would offset our desire for more Sterek subtext niggled at me last night and I finally realized why, and it’s three-fold (and I mean no disrespect to the writer):
1) It was asked in a very leading way - out gay character vs subtext aka visibility to all vs invisibility to non-slash fans. This is problematic unless you have an answer you want. These are called “push” questions and politicians use them all the time to not actually ask the question but to push the the preferred answer into the minds of voters. It’s why I felt guilty saying that emotionally I prefer sterek.
2) It’s also a misleading question in that it asks about getting more of a character vs more of 2 characters interacting in a (subtextual) relationship, those are such very different things that it’s akin to asking someone if they prefer apples or bread, or maybe the better comparison is asking if someone likes Cary Grant or banter films like His Girl Friday, some of which Grant was in but many he wasn’t. The question does not compute because they are too different to be comparable. I like Danny as a character but have no idea whether I will like his relationships - sexual or otherwise - with any of the other characters, whereas I already know I like the relationship between Stiles and Derek. There is no guess work. And ultimately I watch what little TV I have time for because I do like relationships over individual characters. Sometimes I love both but rarely do I watch for individual characters. I loved X-Files for Mulder&Scully’s dynamic, I love Doctor Who but was especially fannish about it with 10 and Rose (romantically) and 10 and Donna (friendship). I love shows for the chemistry between characters, whether I ship them romantically or otherwise (on Teen Wolf, for example, I adore the Scott&Stiles friendship as well as wanting a Stiles&Derek romantic relationship). So to me and other “shippers”, asking about Danny (an individual) vs Sterek (a relationship) simply doesn’t compute.
3) Finally, I’m bothered by the default assumption that suggests that so long as Sterek fans get a gay relationship with Danny, we would be satisfied by that. I don’t like this for 2 reasons.
3a) It places Danny’s sexuality as the primary component of his character, which is something Teen Wolf did an excellent job NOT doing in previous seasons. He was gay, but he was also a jock, somehow Jackson’s friend, a hacker, etc. His sexuality was only relevant to showing people that sexuality WASN’T important in the Teen Wolf world. So it feels like a backward step to suddenly sound as if it’s the main reason he’s getting more air time.
3b) It’s disrespectful to fans who ship Sterek not because it’s a gay relationship but because the character dynamic and chemistry spark off the screen. It’s basically saying that Sterek fans are really simply fans of m/m relationships and whatever m/m relationship is shown will be enough to grab our attention. And that’s simply not the case, at least for me and many other fans I know. Possibly Danny and his boyfriend will have wild chemistry and Sterek fans will love that relationship as well, but that doesn’t somehow negate the spark we see between Stiles&Derek either. And certainly without seeing Danny’s relationship there’s no way to know, so asking now is again akin to saying so long as we get gay sex that’s all we care about. That’s disrespectful to us.
Honestly the more I considered the initial question the more I was bothered by the question itself and all its implications.
I’m also bothered by it because I know Jeff Davis used to read AfterElton, certainly anything Teen Wolf related and it makes me nervous that he might get the impression that more Danny obviates our desire for canon Sterek. I don’t want to send him that message. Do you?
I agree with pretty much everything here.
This is not a zero-sum game. There is space for more than one type of LGBT representation. We can have Danny, who is more of a personal identity representation character, and we can have Sterek, which furthers the cause of having queer main characters in interesting relationships. It’s okay to want both, and it’s okay to have that little scale in your head that may be tipped to one side or the other, IF it were an actual choice between more Danny or Sterek moments.
The question was phrased in such a way to insinuate that of course Sterek isn’t and won’t be canon, that all we can hope for them is more subtext and that supporting and wanting more of that is buying into queerbaiting - and that assumption is not entirely wrong. It does, however, completely ignore the fact that so many of us really do want Sterek to be a canonical romance and that we may not be satisfied with the subtextual status quo all on our own, no Danny addendum required.
More than that, the question assumes that Sterek is the part that would have to be cut down. Which is, again, a false assumption. Jackson’s gone, so any time he would have spent with other characters is free to use. Allison and Scott are broken up, so perhaps they are going to get less couple screen time for now. Maybe they cut lacrosse or some of their scenic running through the woods shots.
Pitting Danny and Sterek against each other like that is either done to stir up shit or out of a mistaken assumption that Teen Wolf can only have a set number of ~queerness~ moments. Teen Wolf’s better than that, I assure you, so why aren’t we?
Just had a wonderful conversation with Qhuinn about Sterek and shipping and how we perceive the ship in question when we say “I want Sterek to happen”. We were both peacefully debating the topic on twitter the other day, and it looked liked we had different opinions about it, but as it turned out we all agree ahaha :D
I kept saying “I don’t want Sterek to happen in season 3” being in that mindset that a ship is immediately boyfraaaan buttsex (also because some people want THAT in season 3 and are aggressive about it and I’m like: NO. TOO SOON.).
But a lot of people use Sterek to say “the relationship between Stiles and Derek” and that means all levels of it.
My view is that I want a form (part) of Sterek to happen in season 3. That would be developping their friendship, the link between them, giving us maybe a hint of something more if Jeff has decided to go for that on the long run. Making it a solid ground for something first. Whatever works for good story telling, good logic in characters building, and something that makes sense.
Ship names make conversations difficult in the end because various people see various things in a ship name. Just like they would give a ship name to a bromance. And after seeing a few very aggressive Sterek shippers defending the whole “boyfriends in season 3” I started assimilating Sterek with that concept therefore became very cautious in discussing it because if someone was telling me “I want Sterek to happen in season 3” my red flag was going up and I was arguing the fact that their relationship NEEDS more before going into boyfriends territory. But it’s still Sterek :D
Turned out a lot of people who said that actually have exactly the same thoughts about the ship and it’s all a giant misunderstanding. We need to talk more I guess, fandom, especially because, Sterek can mean a lot of things on a wide scale of developpments for these two, and in the end I have a feeling that a lot of the fans of the pairing think the same. What we all want is that if it happens, it has to be for the story, because we care and we don’t want this to be a cheap fanservice either (I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be anyway) :D
Random Sterek thoughts for the night :D It’s just my opinion, anyway.
I’m so glad we talked about this outside Twitter’s character limit. I think the 140 charas rule made us misunderstand each other completely.
Like I already told you, all I want is a canon acknowledge that what we see as viewers (that potential, that chemistry, that something between them, call it whatever you want) is actually there. Maybe Derek and Stiles aren’t ready to jump into each other’s arms right away, but we can still get romantic development through the season and beyond future seasons. I also want something not rushed and well done, and I trust Jeff will deliver if he decides to go there with them.
We should also keep in mind that there is a difference between what’s going on from the characters’ POV and what we see as viewers, though. Teen Wolf can show us how Derek and Stiles feel for one another without them having any idea.
Also, when people talk about them “getting together”, what do they imagine? Hot dates? Movie nights? Holding hands and sex car? I’m sorry but when I think of Sterek I imagine a very long slow burn, full of pinning, angst, sexual tension, pull and push situations, friendship, banter, tons of banter, epic manpain, trust issues, learning to open up, family feelings, healing… I don’t know. I’m looking forward the journey, not the last chapter.
I don’t need them to be BOYFRIENDS in Season 3. I just want a real acknowledge that there are romantic feels between them, even if they are not ready to acknowledge it themselves yet.
All I ask for Season 3, in terms of Sterek, is to finish it knowing Sterek are canon, even if they are not “dating” by the end of the 24 episodes.
(Thanks for the opportunity to rant about Sterek. You’re perfect. <3)